Suggested Notation Editor / L.S. Bundle project?

[Steele]

Hi Linuxsampler users and developers!

I'm still in search for my linux-audio setup of choice. My goal is composing in a "traditional" way, stand-alone music or soundtracks for games/movies. This only means using notation notate for the computer, not playing in and recording via midi (no realtime recording) and no use of pianoroll or trackers.

Linuxsampler is surely in the bundle as are other synths. This side of Linuxaudio is pretty good, there a plenty of good "target" applications where you can route your midi too.

What I'm asking myself is which app to use to actually write the music. I tried Rosegarden, QSynth and others but these are not written for Notation. Rosegarden even sucks in notation.
For notation only I use Denemo (GPL), which I really like, but which lacks of a realtime-MIDI-interface so I can't connect it to Linuxsampler. Otherwise it would be perfect.

What programms do you suggest to compose in a traditional notation way but let the computer directly play your score?

Or, from a second point of view:
Now, with powerful PCs and DVDs avaible for nearly anyone (in the western-music-producing world), you surely noticed all these "Notationapp.+Buildin-Sampler" Bundles in the Windows and Mac World.
For example Finale Studio which has an slightly other layout in comparision with the original Finale because if you write for Computers and Sampler you don't need a paper-sheet view and WYSIWYG with page- and linebreaks, you need a sequencer view with an endless "from left to right", scrolling view.

Since non of the notation programs tries to come up with a "notation-sequencer" concept can you imagine to support a notation app from the sampler-side and enhance it so work arm-in-arm and well with Linuxsampler?

Greetings,
NIls

[Steele]

I guess there are no notation-people in here All pianorollers?

[dahnielson]

Well, I personally don't use notation for sequencing in my workflow. I usually do notation the traditional way -- pen and paper -- while sketching out ideas in front of the piano. When sequencing I play record parts or whole ensembles in real time and clean them up in the piano roll afterwards. I'm creating a performance, so I need to work as close to the performance data (MIDI data: velocities, CCs, program changes, etc.). If I need a printed score I prepare it as a separate step.

There need to be some integration for a notation editor/LS bundle to be useful. Integration with both LS and the sample library as the notation editor need to know what instruments and articulation to load and how to switch between them.

BTW, here's a list of notation editors:

• Canorus
• Denemo
• MuseScore
• NtEd
• NoteEdit
• Rosegarden

[Alex]

It's worth remembering that notation editors/sequencers/engravers on a computer are hairy beasts to build, at best. It's a complex and highly variable task to build a notation specific app, and i can say from experience, there's plenty who get it wrong, and most that get it only half right. I was 'brought up' on a formal musical education, with all the requirements of copying and engraving as part of the education process, and i'm still fond of writing on 'parchment' as a preference to computer based engraving. However, it's a requirement these days to have some sort of computer enabled file to present to publishers, or those who require it, so we have what we have, to coin a phrase.

The best engraver/notation editor i ever used (this is not only a subjective view, but experience with most of the offerings out there in Linux/Win/Mac land) was Igor Engraver.

It had its faults, but as a means of inputting notes, and a myriad of symbols, marking, text notes, etc.. it was the closest i ever got to a 'real' notation/engraving experience. The midi playback relied on a powerful machine, and IG was ahead of its time, as most machines at that time could just barely keep up, or more often, not.

So to Linux, and i hope you will appreciate my...'enthusiasm' for a notation app, given what i've written above.

Canorus.

A fine app, well on it's way, but in need of further refinement. One to watch for the future.

Denemo.

This front end for Lilypond does a good job too, but again, a work in progress.

Noteedit.

This one works pretty well, although it took me some time to get my head around the 'barline as you go' philosophy. (I'm old fashioned about this stuff, and prefer to input one bar, then have the app draw an entire bar for the entire score) The font used for this app took some getting used to, but it does work pretty well, once you figure out the unique workflow.

Nted.

This one's a natural successor to Noteedit, and so far so good. Again, a work in progess, but providied the devs consider adding a shedload of keystrokes to this app, taking the mouse out of the picture, i can envisage this app being a powerful, and successful tool of use in the future.

Rosegarden.

The RG team have worked at this one constantly (and continue to do so), and the notation as means of editing, is very good. There is no full score view, unless you manually select all tracks within your main window, but as a midi oriented notation editor, it's near par excellence. (imho) RG also has the capacity to print out as a lilypond engraved finished document, and this works well for me too. RG's near the top of my linux recommendation list for anyone wanting a notation, or in fact, midi based editor, of any sort. It's very capable, and works well. (in my experience.)

Musescore.

I've been watching this one most of all. Werner Schweer has really thought this out, and given the rate of progess, i can see the app being the closest to a dedicated notation solution for composers very soon. i already use it regularly, and keep up with any improvements Werner and the team make. There are compromises to make given it's development status, but one can turn out decent score with Mscore in a fairly short time. (I hope and wish that all notation orientated apps and their developers see the value in an extensive user friendly keystroke collection, with the opportunity to define KS for every aspect of their particular app. This is crucial, imho, for working at speed, and would elevate the status of any app considerably.)

All of this dependent, of course, on your desired method of workflow. I admit here that i hate using a mouse, and see KS as a far quicker method of working. This may not be the case for others, who will see a different view of the apps listed, and my perceptions of them.

For me, RG does a great job, when i'm editing midi, and quickdrafting, in pretty well any midi input editing process. The audio in RG works well too, and i urge the RG team, in the most friendly and respectful of ways, to consider increasing the number of audio channels/busses available up from 16. I suspect with this implementation, and a further expansion of their already excellent KS list, RG would command an even greater position than it currently has, in the studios, and workspaces of users.

Musescore is the one to watch, as a complement to RG, for a purely notation specific environment. It's, imho, the best effort yet, alongside RG, to bring us heavy notation users, a professional notation/computer environment.


I agree with Anders completely here. Integration is the key, and a means of using LS, and any loaded instruments, seamlessly with a notation/playback app would be a formidable step forward. Having a 'dictionary' within a notation app with which one can associate markings and symbols with a relevant loaded instrument, would produce an excellent vehicle for use. (And Igor Engraver attempted this, with a fair degree of success, with a much greater range of subtlety in the playback process. It's a shame the HW of the time struggled to keep up, and the midi playback device mechanism in IG is in today's environment, reduntant.)

Perhaps the ability for the notation app to read directly from loaded LS lscp files might be useful?

2 roubles worth,

Alex.