opensource sample lib format

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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby ccherrett » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:51 pm

dahnielson wrote:You need to extract the samples from the .gig file, e.g. you can use gigextract that ships with libgig to do that. Next you author a SFZ definition file in you favorite text editor (or write a script file to generate it) to use the extracted samples. Regions containing the start of a new note need the trigger= opcode set to "attack" (the default), legato samples without the attack bit need the trigger= opcode set to "legato", and if it's true legato we're implementing, need the sw_previous= opcode set to indicate what the previous note should have been to trigger the region.

I'm going to write more about it in the future when I have time to play around and help Grigor develop the SFZ engine.


So you loose all the programming inside the .gig? Not that I know the implication of that but there must be a ton of attack, release type stuff in there.

I guess what I should do is extract one instrument and start to look around.

Your manual/write up would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby typewriter » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:59 am

Here are some infos:

http://www.drealm.info/sfz/plj-sfz.xhtml
http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/sfz.asp
http://plogue.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=14

Here an editor:

http://audio.clockbeat.com/sfZed.html (quite basic)

It is certainly a great format and superior compared to giga - my main objection is the huge amount of work going into the reprogramming.

Some kind of giga to sfz converter would be awsome. I would be in at once to create perfomance files that don't need the performance tool. However this needs a lot of thinking in advance (the performance tool hast quite some parameters) and a lot of time and I am not sure if the licence of VSL allows this at all.

Another point: I am not sure about is that it looks sfz does not support banks. Or am I wrong?
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby Alex » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:43 am

Yes, i think this is a good idea too.

If we're going to commit to sfz as a format, then having a converter and decent editor would strengthen the case for running with sfz as a default. I'd add that a converter that did more than one format would be even better, i.e. Gig, sf2, nki, akai, etc... Then the effort could go into making a decent converter, and further refining an sfz engine, instead of keep adding engine formats.

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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby luisgarrido » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:54 pm

Format conversion can only go so far, since there may be some fundamental incompatibilities in the engines. A very easy example would be the random dimension in gig, which can't be translated to sf2 at all. More subtle features could be envelope definitions, response curves, filtering...

I'll confess I haven't looked at sfz yet, is it general enough that could encompass all the variety in the different existing formats?

I find difficult to believe a carefully programmed library for a certain engine won't be hopelessly butchered when auto-converted to another one. I'd reckon a good amount of manual tweaking will be always necessary. But sure, a conversion tool could save some time and provide a first rough draft.
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby ccherrett » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:40 am

I am really glad to see this being talked about. I am not sure when I can actually get time to try to convert a VSL performance instrument but it must be done :)
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby dahnielson » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:48 pm

typewriter wrote:I am not sure about is that it looks sfz does not support banks. Or am I wrong?


Not sure what you mean. There's one instrument per SFZ definition file. While I guess the GIG format supports internally defined bank and program numbers for its instruments, but LinuxSampler do not use any of that metadata, everything is instead defined using LSCP (the "Instrument MIDI Map"). So there's no difference between GIG and SFZ in that regard.
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby dahnielson » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:00 pm

ccherrett wrote:I am really glad to see this being talked about. I am not sure when I can actually get time to try to convert a VSL performance instrument but it must be done :)


And hopefully I will be able to make a conversion of Kirk Hunter's Sapphire Orchestra so that there will be an inexpensive ($89) orchestra library to point newcomers towards.
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby typewriter » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:08 am

dahnielson wrote:While I guess the GIG format supports internally defined bank and program numbers for its instruments

Yes, I used this feature once to create a gigantic VSL string file including ALL violin samples organized in bank and instruments - just as a proof of concept. With bank and program change you could access every articulation from just ONE midi channel. Of course you could do someting like that with midimaps, too.
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby dahnielson » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:00 am

typewriter wrote:
dahnielson wrote:While I guess the GIG format supports internally defined bank and program numbers for its instruments

Yes, I used this feature once to create a gigantic VSL string file including ALL violin samples organized in bank and instruments - just as a proof of concept. With bank and program change you could access every articulation from just ONE midi channel. Of course you could do someting like that with midimaps, too.


Huh? MIDI instrument Map is what LinuxSampler use to interpret banks and program changes.
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Re: opensource sample lib format

Postby ccherrett » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:06 pm

A nice little find here!

http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/sfzsamples/

I have verified that horn.rar on that page is the horn from VSL Performance Set. So they have a full legato VSL instrument mapped out.

So I will do some testing to see if it all just works.
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